Ben Carter is best known in Jacksonville as the developer of the St. Johns Town Center in Southside.
His Atlanta-based Ben Carter Properties in partnership with Simon Property Group transformed more than 200 acres along Butler Boulevard into the region’s major shopping draw.
The center, which opened in 2005 and continues to add retailers, attracted major new stores and restaurants to town, including Louis Vuitton, Tiffany & Co., The Cheesecake Factory and The Capital Grille.
Its stores also include well-known staples, such as Target.
The Daily Record interviewed Carter for “First Coast Success,” a regular segment on the award-winning 89.9 FM flagship First Coast Connect program, hosted by Melissa Ross.
The interview is scheduled for broadcast this morning and the replay will be at 8 p.m. on the WJCT Arts Channel or online at www.wjctondemand.org.
These are edited excerpts from the full transcript.
The economy has been in recession, yet there always seem to be shoppers packing the St. Johns Town Center. Why is that?
We really didn’t expect the regional draw the property has. Jacksonville has a little over a million people, but there are probably 3 million people in the trade area, stretching down into St. Augustine, up to Brunswick, out to Gainesville. I think it’s the collection of unique stores, the physical ambience of the property and the fantastic array of restaurants where you can probably eat a different meal every day for two weeks.
You also have a lot of incomes in that trade area.
It’s a very diverse. The property’s appealing to a wide variety of people, because it goes from Target to Tiffany.
How did you come up with the list of retailers and restaurants you wanted?
We’ve really strived to bring in a lot of retailers that weren’t currently in Jacksonville. We went for people who’d look at Jacksonville as a one-store market versus a three- or four-store market. There are shops here that are in the other malls, but the majority of the shops are one-store for Northeast Florida.
How are those stores doing?
They’re doing very well. It’s in the top tier of shopping centers in the country, certainly the top 10 percent. But all of them saw sales either drop or moderate in the last few years. Interestingly, the luxury sector has been the least hurt by the recession. We’re off to a good start again this year and we continue to add new restaurants and retail stores. Hopefully in the coming months we’ll have some exciting announcements.
You still have a lot of land there to develop, and we’ve heard over the years about a possible Macy’s or Nordstrom or Neiman Marcus. What are we going to see?
To go too fast would be a mistake. The more it matures, the more people support it. Being able to add Louis Vuitton and Tiffany was a step in the higher end. Those stores are doing well. It helps us with department stores and other retailers to be able to talk about their successes, and so we do have room for two, maybe three future department stores and shops associated with those and we’re working hard to pick the right people to come, not just fill it up.
Can you tip your hand at all as to who those retailers might be?
I can’t, but I can say there are a couple of exciting announcements that hopefully we’ll be able to make in the next six months.
You’ve developed quite a few centers like this. Talk about the company.
The company is a small company that’s focused on doing very large retail projects and we had a mission that we wanted to create “people places” first, and provide amenities for people that live nearby and want to come there, and a place to take friends when they come to town. A big part of having friends and family visit is usually having a shopping and dining experience, so we wanted it to be a social as well as shopping hub for the area. Making “people places” means you’ve got to do things that are little different, so we’ve had a history of cutting-edge designs and unique architecture.
I know that people complain about the parking, but with success comes a lot of people, which means a lot of cars. Those inconveniences are offset by the experiences you have and the choices you have when you get there.
We made the decision years ago to not try to be everything to everybody, and to be very focused on the quality of what we do, and trying to leave legacies in the community we develop.
You’ve served on City retail task forces. Do you have any insights on what could bring more retail stores Downtown?
I was on Mayor John Peyton’s task force and also on a task force preparing a report for the new mayor and Peyton on his way out, and had the opportunity to meet with Mayor Alvin Brown. I’m delighted to hear his compassion and his drive for Downtown. We had a great one-on-one visit.
The Jacksonville Civic Council had a task force and we did a lot of work over about a year. Hopefully the citizens of Jacksonville understand that a healthy, vibrant Downtown is a clear indicator of the future of a city.
Demographics have changed. We’re not the post-World War II, everybody-wants-to-go-to-the-suburbs. Our young professionals really value an urban experience, and they value the history and the culture and the arts, the people-watching associated with an urban experience.
To continue to attract jobs, to continue to attract young people who want to live here, Downtown’s going to be very important.
Downtown needs to be the civic, arts, cultural and sports center of this area. It’s surrounded in a 5-mile ring by some of the most attractive demographics Jacksonville has to offer. We need to get the people that live within 5 miles to come back Downtown. If they come, people from 10 miles will come.
The area from Hemming Plaza to the St. Johns River needs to be the cultural and civic hub of Downtown. Farther down Bay Street, around the Florida Theatre, we themed that area in the JEDC task force as E-Town, what I call “entertainment town.” What you need there is critical mass of experiences and of people wanting to come. The target market is young families and young professionals.
When the courthouse site becomes available, that could be an anchor of new development.
I’d love to see the City take some of the parking lots and let people do suburban-style apartments. We don’t need high-rise apartments everywhere — just three- and four-story apartments like they have in the suburbs would be very attractive for young professionals.
In the retail world, you’ve got to have the people. In the place-making world, you’ve got to have the activities and events that they want to do.
One of the great successes is the Riverside Arts Market. I just wish to heck it was Downtown, because it’s been a fabulous success.
The Civic Council task force recommended some entertainment options, and we brought in a group that does a baseball field for amateur sports so local teams can play there.
We also introduced the idea of a small amusement park that might be of temporary use but would attract families and young professionals.
We’ve given a lot of these ideas to the mayor.
They generate tax revenue, generate ideas and change the experience of people Downtown.
The key to everything is funding, and in a recession those things are tough.
What the mayor’s doing, trying to create an agency to oversee funding, is very important because these things don’t happen in four years. They happen over 10, 15 years. That vision, that funding, and that follow-up need to be as consistent as possible and less political.
What role do you see the Shipyards property playing?
The Shipyards property is a wonderful office and hotel site. It could be an interim use, so that is where we laid out a family theme park to be taken down in 15 or 20 years.
It had a wave-riding event, zip lines, carousel, Ferris wheel and things that would attract families and young people.
What role do you see yourself playing Downtown?
I retired in January of last year, so I would love to be a consultant, I would love to try to help. I might come out of retirement and do something, you never know.
Do you see other opportunities for your company for another Town Center-type of development? You looked at St. Johns County, and that didn’t come to pass.
Never say never. St. Johns County was an opportunity to do something similar to Town Center, but it doesn’t have the demographics to support what we’ve done at Town Center. The recession hit that area, as well as a lot of areas, very, very hard.
There also were entitlement issues that are now getting better, with some of the state law changes where it’s more affordable to develop.
I don’t know if we’ll do it, but I certainly predict there will be something at World Golf Village in the future.
One of the challenges is that many retailers that are more unique will rent at an outlet center a couple of miles away. They very rarely will do a full-line store that close to an outlet center. As a matter of fact, we’ve had to do some educating to get people that are in the (St. Augustine) outlet center to even come up to Town Center.
It’ll be a different format of retailers. I think this market likes the open-air street-side, nature development.
You have history in Jacksonville.
My mother was born and raised here in Ortega, and my grandfather actually ran a shipping line based at the Shipyards. I’ve been coming here since I was a child, and I have family here, and it’s a wonderful place to have a second home for us. Hopefully if we get the right department stores, I’ll talk my wife into making it a permanent home.
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